Curse

Mithie · Aug 19, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

This is just a tentative suggestion in response to those who would like to see a second "melee" class. Please feel free to critique it or dismiss it all together. You won't hurt my feelings, honest.

Class name: Battlemage.

Attribute:

Primary attribute: Battle Meditation

The battlemage has the ability to harness the energy of incoming attacks and convert it for his own use. The battlemage gains one energy for every 12 hits when the attribute is at 1 and 2 energy for every hit when the attribute is at 12.

Attribute: Weapon affinity

The battlemage has the ability to summon a variey of different melee weapons. Every point placed into this attribute will increase the effectiveness of the skills associated with it. The summoned weapon is considered an enchantment and may be dispelled/rended. The summoned weapon may be used in conjunction with warrior skills specific to that weapon, but not the other way around. The summoned weapon skills will NOT work on physical weapons. Unlike IW, the summoned weapon DOES NOT ignore armor.

Here are some sample skills from this line:

Summon sword: 5/1/10

Summons a sword that deals a minimum damage of 3-12 and a max damage of 4-22 for 30 seconds.

Summon hammer: 5/1/10

Summons a hammer that deals a min dam of 5-19 and a max dam of 10-35 for 30 seconds.

Summon axe: 5/1/10

Summons an axe that deals a min dam of 1-6 and a max dam of 6-28 for 30 seconds.

Hex imbuement: 10/1/20

Takes 1-3 hexes off of other ally and imbues it into your summoned weapon. The next time your weapon hits an enemy, that enemy is hexed with the imbued hexes, with the durations reset.

Graft Enchantment: 10/2/10

Takes the top enchantment off the target and imbues your weapon with it. Your weapon will do 3-10 extra damage for the remaining duration of that enchantment.

Chilling Spirit: 5/1/10

The next time you hit your target, all his/her stance skills become unusable for 5-20 seconds. The current stance is not disrupted.

Elemental Tap: 5/1/10

In the next 5-20 seconds, if you take elemental damage, your summoned weapon will do an extra 3 - 10 damage of that elemental type.

Sunder Summon{E}: 15/3/40

Destroys your summoned weapon to release a flurry of magical energy which does 20-50 damage to all surrounding enemies, as well as dazing them.

Attribute: Arcane Symbolism:

The battlemage is often able to craft and maintain symbols which alter the very rules of magic itself. Once a symbol is active, it may remain active as long as the battlemage maintains it. While the battlemage maintains it, he/she may not cast spells, but is free to move and attack using attack skills, or the symbol will be cancelled. The only method by which the symbol can be destroyed is by attacking the battlemage and striking him enough times to upset his concentration. Every point placed into this attribute increases the effectiveness of the linked skills as well as increase the amount of hits required to disrupt the symbol. At level 1, it will take one hit. At level 12, it will take ten hits. (Damage is irrelavent; what matters are the amount of hits, elemental or otherwise. So focused wanding will disrupt it just as well as a flurry of lighting spikes.) Symbols have an effective radius of about 1.5 times that of a ward.

Symbol of Fortitude: 15/3/15

While this symbol is maintained, the duration of deep wound and the hex "fragility" are decreased by 1-15 seconds on all allies.

Symbol of Pain: 7 adren/0.25/30

While this symbol is maintained, all allies' physical damage will be boosted by 1-8 points.

Symbol of Unnatural Soil: 15/3/15

No new spirits may be cast inside the radius and all existing spirits will experience 1-10 pips of hp degen.

Symbol of Fury: 7 adren/0.25/30

All allies experience an attack speed increase of 5-20% Will not stack with tigers fury/frenzy/flurry.

Symbol of Air: 15/3/60

All air damage dealt by allies are increased by 10-50%

Symbol of Fire: 15/3/60

All fire damage dealt by allies are increased by 10-50%

Symbol of Frost: 15/3/60

All ice damage dealt by allies are increased by 10-50%

Symbol of Earth: 15/3/60

All earth damage dealt by allies are increased by 10-50%

Symbol of Enchants: 15/3/60

All enchantments placed upon allies are increased in duration by 5-30%

Symbol of Blood: 15/3/60

Whenever an ally sacrifices health, the battlemage is healed for 30-70% that amount.

Symbol of Ritual {E}: 25/3/30

The battlemage calls forth a massive maelstrom which causes all enemies in the radius to experience 1-2 pips of energy degen.

Attribute: Immortal Construct

The battlemage is able to command a powerful golem as his ally. For every point in the attribute, the golem will become stronger in terms of both hp and physical damage. The linked skills will also be more effective. The construct shares the same lifeline as the battlemage. Therefore, if the battlemage is injured, the construct will experience the same injury, though not neccessarily the same conditions and hexes. However, this life bond does not work in reverse. The mage will not feel the damage done to his construct.

Skills:

Immortal Construct: 0/0/0

Like the Charm Animal skill, if you carry it, you'll have a construct.

Reconstruction: 10/2/60

Ressurects all constructs in the area with 40-160 hp. All your summoning skills are blacked out for 10 seconds.

<some more construct attack skills which I can't creatively name off the top of my head at the moment>
_______________________________________

This character is designed to get hit and deal melee damage/disruption. The enemy team will have no choice but to hit him if his symbol goes up (you can only maintain one symbol at a time) or suffer the consequences. Since the limit of breaking the symbol doesn't lie in damage but in how many times he gets hit, monk enchantment stacking won't prolong the symbol that much, but the battlemage can use stuff like bonetti's, whirling defense, lightning reflexes, or have other monks spam aegis, etc, to keep the symbol up longer. Unlike a warrior, the battlemage WILL get hit and can attract a healthy amount of firepower. However, this class can also be piggybacked onto a warrior primary for the summon weapons skills and he can also relegate himself to a melee fighter.

This guy will get hit, and because of his primary attribute, LIKE IT. (As long as he doesn't die from getting hit).

Criticisms? Flames? Tweaks?

twicky_kid · Aug 19, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

this class is already covered by a w/ele. they will not make this class because of one reason...balance.

battle mages are basicly w/ele rolled into one. so i take the battle mage class and then choose a 2nd class. i have effectivly 3 classes. not balanced will never fly. its fine the way it is.

Mercury Angel · Aug 20, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

It's like a warrior+ele+mesmer+necromancer+ranger rolled into one, with all of those effects.

Damage in melee, elemental damage, damage buffing, enchantment removal, and a pet.

FAR too much for a single profession.

Digitalblast · Aug 20, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

how about battletoads!!!

zehly · Aug 20, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

I like this profession ^_^ Will the female version be sexier than the Mesmer female?

Red Sonya · Aug 20, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

Lol all that typing just for it to be a big fat flop. haha

Kai Nui · Aug 20, 2005, 01:11 PM // 13:11

A battle mage? You mean like a W/E? Oh wow that's already invented, lmao. People need to get it through their skulls that class creation isn't something you can do off the top of your head.

Mithie · Aug 21, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Well, actually, the majority of the responses seem to dismiss this class as something already existent, when a more scrutinizing person famililar with the PvP metagame should find the element of TANKING this class offers to be at least interesting.

No other class currently in the metagame is able to truely TANK, as in, force the enemy team to attack you and draw off damage from the rest of your team.

Of course, you could say "Well that's what the monk is for. He usually ends up drawing most of the damage". However, the monk is underattack PRECISELY because he plays such an important support role. This class is able to convert damage and hits into useful energy to support or feed into the monk and the rest of his team.

This guy is meant to be a TANK: make the other team focus on him while turning that attention into tangible resource in terms of energy. This sort of TANK is NOT covered by the current metagame.

This is NOT a W/E, because a W/E won't get hit until he's the last guy ALIVE. This guy WILL get hit as soon as he throws a symbol up because the symbol cannot be dispelled or cancelled unless the battlemage is sufficiently wanded/spiked/flurried/tiger's furied. This guy will have to be hit or FORCE the other team to play with a disadvantageous hand.

Please show me a class that's in the game right now that functions as a capable damage drawer in the metagame.

This character is able to amplify the attacking skills of his teammates WHOLESALE, as well as draw away enough attention from the monk classes so that they are more effective at what they do.

Why this class is not a Warrior: He's not there to sustain DPS.

Why this class is not an Elementalist: He's not there to max out spikes. He's there to take damage.

Why this class is not a monk: He's not there to do 1 on 1 support. He's there to lay down a full deck of cards for the ENTIRE TEAM.

Why this class is not a mesmer: He's not there to deal hexes or shut down casters. He's there to reshuffle prioirites.

Just because the skills have similar effects DOES NOT make this character a carbon copy of other classes.

Quote:

Lol all that typing just for it to be a big fat flop. haha

I typed it up because it's fun for me. I don't believe it's a big fat flop because it takes a role that doesn't exist in the current metagame.

Quote:

Damage in melee, elemental damage, damage buffing, enchantment removal, and a pet.

This reasoning is very wrong.

Any class can achieve those effects. Yes, they're effects, not roles.

For example, a mesmer could deal out melee damage with IW, indirectly buff damage with the inspiration line, and shatter enchants, not to mention the ability to do the latter two with a secondary.

Effects are NOT ROLES.

Show me a class combination in the current metagame that can attract damage like a lodestone and turn that damage into a support element.

Druids Arrow · Aug 21, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I like the idea, however, as other people have said it is similair to a W/E or E/W.

Mercury Angel · Aug 22, 2005, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

This reasoning is very wrong.

Any class can achieve those effects. Yes, they're effects, not roles.

For example, a mesmer could deal out melee damage with IW, indirectly buff damage with the inspiration line, and shatter enchants, not to mention the ability to do the latter two with a secondary.

Effects are NOT ROLES.

Show me a class combination in the current metagame that can attract damage like a lodestone and turn that damage into a support element.

Some professions are obviously distinctly more effective at some roles, however.

Rangers are the only people who get permanent pets, and in order to use them effectively, they have to give up many skill slots. Necromancers are the only other profession that have pets at all, balanced by a very conditional effect, corpses, and then degenerative to make them non-permanent.

Mesmers and Monks are the only classes that can remove hexes, except for Nature's Renewal on Rangers. Monks have the advantage in this department with the 2 multi-hex removals.

Mesmers and Necromancers are the only classes that can remove enchantments, except for Nature's Renewal on Rangers. Necromancers have the obvious upper hand, with the only multi-enchant removals (barring Nature's Renewal, once again).

No single profession is limited to 1-2 exact roles, and by providing a second profession, there're even more available.

Each profession is a stand-alone, as well as complimentary to other professions, if even for only a few skills (2 skills = 25% of the skill bar).
However, each profession also is lacking in various ways.

And that's the whole reason I don't agree with this suggestion-
This profession is too far-reaching. You've given it skills across the board that tend to be limited to only 1-2 professions, and a lot of them at that. Doesn't that sound, I don't know, balance breaking?

Edge Martinez · Aug 22, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

I'd love another melee attacker, but like others have said, this just seems FAR too munchkin. Plus I'm sure Anet has taken all the feedback requesting a second melee professions and will be giving us one at a future date. I'm thinking it'll be a brawler ala Little Thom.

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

And that's the whole reason I don't agree with this suggestion-
This profession is too far-reaching. You've given it skills across the board that tend to be limited to only 1-2 professions, and a lot of them at that. Doesn't that sound, I don't know, balance breaking?

Not at all - because I've also given it a new method of countering it. Hit the guy a few times and the effect is stopped.

It's not the effects that are the focus of this build. Those can be shuffled around. It's the idea that this character could be a potential TANK, a role which is completely lacking from the current metagame.

As for your idea of such being far reaching, I feel it's neccessary in order to make the tanking aspect of this class some force, making the effects much more difficult to play under IF they are allowed to be put up.

The whole weapon summoning line is done to make the character functional so that instead of being a PURE tank, he can still do some damage. The drawback? His utility in this line limits him to a melee role - a role which forces him to come in contact with the enemy, making him all the more vulnerable to the support class of the other team.

Thank you for that well thought out criticism, however.

Quote:

I'd love another melee attacker, but like others have said, this just seems FAR too munchkin. Plus I'm sure Anet has taken all the feedback requesting a second melee professions and will be giving us one at a future date. I'm thinking it'll be a brawler ala Little Thom.

Balancing can be reshuffled. I've balanced out the far reaching effects of the class with two things:

1. The casting time.
2. The method by which it can be countered (simply hit the character throwing them up)
and
3. The fact that the primary attribute of this character is conditional; the condition being the benefits are only gained when he's under fire.

As for the comment about Anet, I'm not here to advertise my class. I'm here to present a suggestion, garner feedback on how it would fit in, improve, or alter the current metagame, and through the discussion, gain some insight for all of us.

Quote:

I like the idea, however, as other people have said it is similair to a W/E or E/W.

How so? Can either an E/W or a W/E perform as a tank in the current PvP metagame?

Quote:

Some professions are obviously distinctly more effective at some roles, however.

Yes, of course.

Quote:

Rangers are the only people who get permanent pets, and in order to use them effectively, they have to give up many skill slots. Necromancers are the only other profession that have pets at all, balanced by a very conditional effect, corpses, and then degenerative to make them non-permanent.

Pets? They serve the same role as everything else. Their skills include energy management, condition spamming, interruption, sustained dps, etc. They're not different from the other skills you use, except for one important thing: they're conditional. The condition? Their well being. Pet skills are just a conditional delivery system of the same set of roles that every other skill do.

Plus, neither rangers nor necros can serve as tanks.

Quote:

Mesmers and Monks are the only classes that can remove hexes, except for Nature's Renewal on Rangers. Monks have the advantage in this department with the 2 multi-hex removals.

Yes, that's right, but they can't tank.

Quote:

Mesmers and Necromancers are the only classes that can remove enchantments, except for Nature's Renewal on Rangers. Necromancers have the obvious upper hand, with the only multi-enchant removals (barring Nature's Renewal, once again).

Yes, that's right, but they can't tank.

Quote:

No single profession is limited to 1-2 exact roles, and by providing a second profession, there're even more available.

Name me a profession combination that can play out well as a tank in the current metagame.

johnnylange · Aug 22, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

More ideas on how to reinvent the wheel...

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnylange

More ideas on how to reinvent the wheel...

How is it reinventing the wheel if the wheel (a class designed around absorbing damage) hasn't been invented yet?

wolfy3455 · Aug 22, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Basically your making a class that can tank like a warrior yet have the countering ability of a mesmer and buffs that outdo those of any other class.

johnnylange · Aug 22, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

How is it reinventing the wheel if the wheel (a class designed around absorbing damage) hasn't been invented yet?

Absorb Runes reduce damage.

Edge Martinez · Aug 22, 2005, 04:59 AM // 04:59

A W/Mo, N/W, N/Mo, W/N, Mo/W are good tankers. Anything better than them at their best and it's not balanced. But just so you know, I do like the fact people are actually interested in this game enough to think about the future.

Vermilion Okeanos · Aug 22, 2005, 05:31 AM // 05:31

How about this...?

Class: Expert
Defulat Max Energy: 20
Energy Regen: 3
Armor:
70 + 15 vs physical
60 + 25 vs elemental
Weapon Perfection- Primary. Allow hero to increase all weapon effectiveness. For each point in this attribute, shield effectiveness decrease. (contains different version of attack skills from each weapon than the oringinal)
Experience- Increase experience skills' effectiveness. (mostly stance)
Honor- Increase honor skills' effectiveness. (mostly self buff shout skills)
Shame- Increase shame skills' effectiveness. (mostly offensive shout skills)

Most shout of this class will be single target. (not all)
The only class that can use dual...?
Only have about 1-2 attack skills for each weapon in the weapon perfection line... except magical weapons.

Would probably need some balance in the shout... maybe making some skills that especially disable shout skills...

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

A W/Mo, N/W, N/Mo, W/N, Mo/W are good tankers. Anything better than them at their best and it's not balanced. But just so you know, I do like the fact people are actually interested in this game enough to think about the future.

No, actually, NONE of those are tanking classes. You cannot force people to attack your W/Mo or your W/N or any W/x. In fact, the W/x is usually the last surviving class in PvP because no one bothers to attack the warrior. The warrior is probably last on the list of priority targets. The most you'll get if you're a superb warrior who can adren spike/sustain dps/do caster shutdown/edenial with "Fear Me" is a soothing images or empathy or spirit shackles slapped on you. So no, W/x's are NOT TANKS.

N/Mo's, N/W's are not tanks either. The N/Mo's and N/W's are probably also low enough on the target priority list (unless on dais maps and the enemy is willing to risk a fair amount to snipe out your putrid ability) that they'll go down AFTER the other support classes or damage dealers. If you're a N/Me, maybe you'll be targeted after the Mo's, Mes', and Ele's... but not before.

The Mo/W will probably attract a good amount of firepower, but that firepower will impede on the Mo/W's primary function, be it smiting or 1 on 1 support. Also, the Mo/W has no way of converting that damage to a useful and practical substance, unless he uses bonetti's or essense bond, but both has their downsides. He also has low enough armor that most of this damage will blow right through and KILL him unless he neglects his primary duties and spikes heavy enchants on himself, run like hell, or pull his support teammates on him to mitigate the situation. Any one of these solutions would heavily damper his primary function (not to mention the first of which is nearly impossible to run under NR and rend), which cuts him out as an effective tank.

Quote:

Absorb Runes reduce damage.

What does that have to do with tanking? Tanking is the ability to draw fire away from your support classes onto yourself without seriously hampering your functionality on the battlefield. Absorb runes don't exactly paint a "HIT ME" sign on the warrior. In fact, it pretty much paints the exact opposite.

Kai Nui · Aug 22, 2005, 12:12 PM // 12:12

This is STILL horrible. A team could easily be comprised of 3 monks and a battle mage. There would be no way to lose.